Timeline for Can we please be more generous to elementary beginners?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
51 events
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| Jun 12, 2020 at 10:07 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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| Apr 15, 2019 at 11:22 | comment | added | Rita Geraghty | JI do think that this community site should split into subgroups, one for undergraduates, another for post graduates and another for off-topic questions. Lastly, keep this one for the black-belted mathematicians who wish to post unsolveable rigor questions or for those love rigor challenges. | |
| Apr 14, 2019 at 2:59 | answer | added | goblin GONE | timeline score: 6 | |
| Apr 13, 2019 at 20:14 | comment | added | Jyrki Lahtonen | I think I saw Jack place a bounty on a question probably under this same umbrella, but I can't find it now. While I strongly disprove of the practice (I think it is against an established policy, a rule even), I also tacitly tipped my hat. Putting their hard earned rep where there mouth is, is kinda rare. Too rare, if you ask me :-) | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 9:00 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackMath/status/1115902421149069314 | ||
| Apr 7, 2019 at 15:46 | comment | added | Akira | I just feel that your words People can learn things by positive actions really touches my heart @Jack. | |
| Apr 7, 2019 at 7:49 | answer | added | Mark Bennet | timeline score: 17 | |
| Apr 6, 2019 at 20:27 | answer | added | Jyrki Lahtonen | timeline score: 14 | |
| Apr 6, 2019 at 18:28 | answer | added | quidMod | timeline score: 12 | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 23:41 | answer | added | user296602 | timeline score: 28 | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 22:36 | answer | added | Kevin | timeline score: 7 | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 18:08 | comment | added | quid Mod | @Jack I did not imply that you said or assumed that OP's attempt shows "mathematical maturity" What makes you think I did this? Instead what you seem to do is trying to leverage the assumed lack of mathematical maturity to justify and to excuse the shortcomings of parts of the post, in particular, of the attempt. My objection is against the reasoning the question is simple, therefore we need to look past shortcoming of the post. This can make sense, yet not when the shortcomings of the post have nothing to do with the mathematical level as it is the case here. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 17:44 | comment | added | user9464 | (cont.) "let's not pretend it has much to do with being mathematical mature. " distorts my arguments in my post: I have never said/assumed OP's attempt shows "mathematical mature" (but I do believe in OP made efforts no matter how silly you think they are) and on the contrary, it is due to the very lack of mathematical maturity that I raise my question in the title of this post. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 17:44 | comment | added | user9464 | I have repeated myself many times that I take "question" and the "attempt" in a post differently and have explained many times my opinion that OP's "attempt" should be treated differently from the question. I have also repeated myself that OP did have a well-formulated mathematical question in his/her post. (cont.) | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 17:12 | comment | added | Jyrki Lahtonen | Thanks @quid. If the asker left, then I guess it's pointless and try to educate them about the site norms. Anyway, the users most keen to keep the question undeleted should take the lead, and educate the asker. I will drop this matter, as they did try to improve the post and used their hard-earned edit privilege! | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 16:45 | comment | added | quid Mod | Re your edit, I hate to repeat myself, yet while you did qualify the attempts as a mess, you also keep saying things like 'which is rather common for a beginner, who is not matured mathematically enough yet to articulate his/her own thoughts' They said they want to substitute "tan x = 1/5" and "y= 1/8". I think they pretty clearly did not want to do that. The asymmetry just makes no sense at all. Instead they likely simply dropped a "tan" by inadvertence. Now, that's not terrible, but let's not pretend it has much to do with being mathematical mature. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 16:33 | comment | added | quid Mod | @JyrkiLahtonen there is exactly one deleted comment in that thread, which was written long past OP had left (for now). Also it is merely the editor and the answerer coordinating to get the post reopened. It was self-deleted. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 16:29 | comment | added | quid Mod | @RoddyMacPhee if it's about the rollback it seems you missed that I did speak out against rollbacks in this thread. Plus, it could get deleted with or without the rollbacks. Incidentally it is deleted in Jack's version. Thus, that's orthogonal. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 16:12 | comment | added | user9464 | " After all, basicall(y) it is about knowing the tangents of two angles and then asking what is the tangent of the sum." Most the questions on MSE could be classified on MO as "basically it is about a trivial routine exercise in an undergraduate/graduate course". Such question could be rather nontrivial for a beginner. If MSE does want to welcome all level of mathematical learns, one could/should expect such elementary individuals, who could not yet be even able to identify an abstract duplicate of a question in the first place. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 16:00 | comment | added | user9464 | Jyrki: as I have explained in several comments, I take a mathematical question and an attempt by OP in a "post" differently. There is nothing wrong with the mathematical question per se in OP. It is a well-formulated, unambiguous question. On the other hand, OP's original attempt was a "mess", which is rather common for a beginner, who is not matured mathematically enough yet to articulate his/her own thoughts. But such unsatisfactory attempts do not affect the "question". Hence the question in the title of my post here. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 15:30 | comment | added | Jyrki Lahtonen | But, I also agree with Bill. This question is essentially a duplicate of many others. After all, basicall it is about knowing the tangents of two angles and then asking what is the tangent of the sum. Therefore I support keeping it deleted. The best way to help new users is to teach them to search the site. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 15:30 | comment | added | user645636 | It's not at all anti-quality-control. it's simply they changed the functions stated, Therefore decreasing the usefulness of answers to a question without knowing of the improper understamding the OP has. That's missed information by the future answerers. rolling back edits just to force deletion, is a crap tactic at best. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 15:27 | comment | added | Jyrki Lahtonen | Have any comments to the question under discussion been deleted? If not then I am disappointed in that neither Jack nor Maria tried to help the asker by explaining to them what was wrong with the question, and what kind of changes are expected. I do see that you both edited it. That's fine and appreciated. But, IMO it would be better to also explain this to the asker. Without such displays of helpfulness this looks like yet another anti-quality-control rant. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 15:18 | comment | added | quid Mod | @RoddyMacPhee really? There I thought I am trying to get the OP here from their anti-quality-control position back to a more middle of the road position. It's all a matter of perspective. And quite frankly I think I oversee the global situation as well as various side aspects of the situation rather better than most others. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 14:54 | comment | added | user645636 | @quid seems to forget that moderators make extremes more moderate, and not more extreme. | |
| Apr 5, 2019 at 13:10 | history | edited | YuiTo Cheng | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
correct some typos
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| Apr 5, 2019 at 2:25 | answer | added | Theo Bendit | timeline score: 61 | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 23:20 | comment | added | user296602 | @ArcticChar Yes, but my point was just that that's a particularly early iteration of the same discussion; I seem to remember a "let's not close new users' questions" discussion every few months, with the latest one some time early this year. I strongly doubt that this one is going to produce any new ideas. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 23:08 | comment | added | quid Mod | @Bill since the post was deleted when the meta post was written OP here made an effort to explain it quite well. I think the situation is reasonably transparent. If it must be, we can undelete and lock. I'd say though that there is also some merit in having it deleted. It is not without issue to drag a new user into the spot-light without them having much any influence or understanding what happens to them. It could be argued it would have been better raise without direct reference to any particular post. However one sees it, the one specific post is hardly what is at actually at stake. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:56 | comment | added | Bill Dubuque | @quid fyi: in the past some mods have even (temporarily) undeleted questions so that all users could view them during meta discussion. This restores transparency - which is important in matter like these. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:36 | comment | added | quid Mod | The questions was in state "deleted" when the meta question was raised. The state prior to the start of the discussion is thus restored. I won't enter a finger-pointing debate on procedures, but it'd be easy enough to turn all those arguments around. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:26 | comment | added | Arctic Char | The problem is now I cannot see the timeline and in particular the edit that is involved, so I cannot join the discussion (I am not interested to join anyway so won't flag) | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:25 | comment | added | Bill Dubuque | This question is probably not the best choice to argue the general principles because it is surely a dupe of many others on the (arc)tan addition formula, e.g. here for a random example. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:23 | comment | added | user9464 | "I think that one should use the rule for $\tan(𝑥+𝑦)$. " clearly indicates an attempt no matter how stupid one thinks this is. While we are still having a discussion, which related to the linked post, the moderator should really not use his/her power to eradicate a post by a new user, which significantly violates the spirit in the Code of Conduct. The comment under the deleted post: "This question did not comply with our guidelines for how to ask good questions." is nothing but the moderator's own view. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:22 | comment | added | Gerry Myerson | @Arctic, yes, deleted by moderator quid, so users can't vote to undelete now. But users can flag for moderator attention, if they think a moderator shouldn't take such action on a question under active discussion on meta. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:17 | comment | added | Arctic Char | @Gerry gone again | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:12 | comment | added | Gerry Myerson | Now undeleted and reopened. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 22:11 | comment | added | Arctic Char | @T.bongers probably the community shares a completely different opinion 7 years ago, since the population was way smaller back then (but I guess one can also easily find similar meta post which is more recent) | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 21:59 | history | edited | user9464 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 2456 characters in body
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| Apr 4, 2019 at 21:28 | answer | added | darij grinberg | timeline score: 122 | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 21:08 | comment | added | user296602 | I think that this post is just going to be a rehashing of discussions that have been had over and over again over the years... here's a post with virtually the same sentiment. From 7 years ago. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:26 | comment | added | quid Mod | Please make sure to include in your reply why $y=1/8$ is due to confusion as opposed to being sloppy. Otherwise, please, explicitly acknowledge that the post was indeed sloppy. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:24 | comment | added | user9464 | Sorry, I have to be offline now and I will get back to you later and elaborate further my point if you insist it is not clear yet. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:23 | comment | added | quid Mod | Again nobody took the time to explain to OP what they could do to avoid common pitfalls on the site. Not you, not the answerer, not all those upvoters. This is not the best way to help. If you ask me, it's a misguided way to help (and that's assuming positive intentions). | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:20 | comment | added | quid Mod | Alright so what is the confusion behind $y=1/8$? | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:20 | comment | added | user9464 | Not the first time such rollback downvote close deletion behavior is encouraged. I am so surprises that when such matter is brought out for discussion, a moderator is so hurried to take sides. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:15 | comment | added | user9464 | you Yourself consider a question as careless while there are LOT OF PEOPLE only see confusion and simply trying to help. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:13 | comment | added | user9464 | Quid of course it has a LOT to do with being elementary. I just can not believe a moderator wrote his or her comment in such a hurry way. Downvote to your comment. You are violating the being nice rule by simply unfairly assuming my attention for posting this question is bad. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 19:06 | comment | added | quid Mod | Of course the "either" above is a false dichotomy, since we could decide on some set of exceptions. But my vote won't be for including carelessly type standard calculus exercises there. We already have tens not to say hundreds of thousands of those. There is really zero need for more of those as far as the site is concerned. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 18:48 | comment | added | quid Mod | The post was very sloppily written. That has little to do with being elementary. Unfortunately no one explained the problems with the post to OP. As for your meta post, it's generally better to formulate an honest question or to attempt to start an actual discussion rather than to write yet another plea. That the question is elementary really misses the point. Tangentially, some other users advocate for poorly phrased more advanced questions. You see where this is going? Either we do nothing for the quality of the site because everybody has their own set of exceptions or we are more uniform. | |
| Apr 4, 2019 at 18:18 | history | asked | user9464 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |