# Why do women participate less on our site using their real names?

This list https://math.stackexchange.com/users?tab=reputation&filter=all contains mostly male names. Women seem to be relatively invisible here on math.SE. Is there any particular reason behind less participation of women on our site using their real names?

Is this not a cause for concern?

• Similar question at meta.MO. – Martin Sleziak Apr 26 '13 at 19:16
• @MartinSleziak I can see lots of downvotes flying around here! – Richard Nash Apr 26 '13 at 19:50
• This is a generic feature of many parts of the internet; to the extent that it's a cause for concern, it's a generic cause for concern and is by no means limited to math.SE. – Qiaochu Yuan Apr 26 '13 at 20:00
• "Why cannot I see enough women here?" How many women are enough? – Gerry Myerson Apr 27 '13 at 5:43
• @GerryMyerson To be precise, why does the page I linked to not contain the name of a single woman? – Richard Nash Apr 27 '13 at 6:27
• @GerryMyerson In an ideal world, we would have roughly the same number of women users as men, as they make up about half the population. It isn't an accident that we don't -- it's a reflection of how society treats women. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's much we can do, as this is a systemic problem. – Potato Apr 27 '13 at 18:32
• They do exist. For example, TaraB haunts the [group-theory] tag rather well. – user1729 Apr 27 '13 at 18:59
• How would you know if a username corresponds to a woman or not? Would it make you feel better if I changed mine to "Stephanie D"?? This is a useless question. – user641 Apr 27 '13 at 22:53
• Note that the question title does little to help the cause. (Literally, it implies that your personal goal is to see enough women.) – François G. Dorais Apr 28 '13 at 0:51
• @Potato - Why is 50% ideal? Female engineering students are less than 20%. It doesn't start here, it ends here. It starts in grade schools and high schools promoting the sciences and making them attractive to both sexes. I know engineer does not equate with "interest in math", not 100% anyway, but it will take generations before we are anywhere near even 30%. – JTP - Apologise to Monica Apr 28 '13 at 2:23
• @JoeTaxpayer We seem to be in agreement. In an ideal world, with gender disparities fixed in grade schools and high schools and colleges, we would correspondingly see gender equality here. What Richard Nash noted is merely a symptom of a larger problem. – Potato Apr 28 '13 at 2:38
• @FrançoisG.Dorais, I hope the title is fine now. – Richard Nash Apr 28 '13 at 4:14
• BTW quantcast seems to have statistics about gender. Although I do not know how exactly are those stats created. – Martin Sleziak Aug 28 '16 at 13:15
• Perhaps this is not an issue about women in mathematics (the subject), but rather an issue of women being public about their information on the internet. While this is an amazing site and I have no reason to suspect it, people do get stalked and such on the internet and so a woman might feel more at risk than a man and so more of them use fake names to conceal their real life identities from people who might prey on them. Just a thought. Might even be subconscious. – user64742 Feb 3 '17 at 3:51

Izabella Laba, a female mathematician, has written two posts about why she does not participate on MathOverflow that you might find interesting: the first, and the second.

• First of all, I think the more interesting question is this: For those women who remain, for more than a year, we can't completely know, because many of us use gender-neutral user names. And why would we do that, or feel the need to do that? – amWhy Sep 3 '17 at 19:05

I am an undergraduate in Biology and Math, and also a woman. I find this question particularly interesting because my choice to use Christian over Christianne while filling out the forms was a knee-jerk reaction and I gave it minimal thought. For me, it was the obvious choice. And, to be honest, laziness was the motivating factor.

In my experience in a myriad of different types of online communities, being a female means that you have to deal with additional issues. Regardless of whether it is offensive or not, being female becomes a thing. You are no longer a player you are a female player, or you are no longer a commentator, you are a female commentator. Note here that no man felt the need to specify that they were a man when commenting, but of course its necessary for me to identify myself as a female. Given that the topic here is partially that women may use male names, one could reasonably think that a commentator (with a gender neutral or male name) was a woman or man but (I think its fair to generalize) we all assume they are men unless stated. My choice was less to become a male but more to choose the gender neutral option.

I'm not sensitive enough to care what a random person on the internet thinks of me, so gender slurs don't particularly bother me more than other inane comments. For me, its simply tedious to have to deal with the extra baggage that comes along with being a woman on the internet - be it against women, neutral, or positive encouragement. There is simply more extraneous discussion when you're a woman. Why would I want to talk about the fact that I'm a woman (or that apparently I should make you a sandwich) when discussing politics?

I realize that I'm not addressing the source issue. Why I'm so accustomed to such behaviour that it becomes a tedious matter rather than one to be battled is, of course, a very big issue. Being the lazy person that I apparently am, I have no wish to delve into it here.

So, if it can be assumed that I am not the only person to feel this way, the absence of female names can be partially attributed to an acclimation of women to internet culture. Anyone who surfs the internet knows what buttons spark internet debate (think gender issues, islam, gender issues, and did I mention gender issues?) and may develop tactics to avoid it. I have no more delusions about convincing sexist individuals (on the internet) to respect women than I do about convincing Christian Fundamentalists that dinosaurs and man did not coexist. (Note that I making no claims to whether or not such activity takes place here, just that its a trend over the entire internet)

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this. Are there women who feel this way? Are you also part of the internet generation? Men, are you surprised to hear this perhaps jaded reaction? Additionally, don't men often use pseudonyms here? I'm assuming your question was why a woman would be more likely than a man to use one.

• Oh also, on that note, I am not implying that being offended by things on the internet makes you somehow weak or sensitive (in a negative way). I just don't happen to have a sensitivity to such things. – Christian Apr 29 '13 at 1:10
• +1 I think this is a good point, and one I've seen made enough places for me to believe it is a common situation. – Alex Becker Apr 29 '13 at 4:35
• I feel ashamed for my fellow males who are not capable of making themselves a sandwich ... :( – Hagen von Eitzen May 8 '13 at 19:49
• I am a research amateur, data processing practitioner with an EE and math background "and also a man". I live in a professional world where the gender imbalance is visible. It is an every-day job to prevent this imbalance from becoming non-professional behavior (patronizing, etc.). The relative anonymity and the law-fuzziness over the Internet probably catalyses such real-life behavior. Thank you for you detailed point-of-view, a call to all beings to act so that one day, such a question won't be asked anymore – Laurent Duval Sep 8 '16 at 5:33

I am a girl and I do not use my name because of some embarrassing situation on chat, confronting with some boys (I think I should say one boy) whose behavior is completely disrespectful with female users. Saying including obscene things. If there were more respect, maybe I , or others, would use their names. How there's no control over people's education, I prefer to stay like that.

• Users can be suspended. The chat system has a flagging option if I recall correctly, and if a flag is accepted as offensive the offending user is automatically put on a timeout for a certain period of time. You can, and should, use this feature. – Asaf Karagila Apr 28 '13 at 21:59
• I don't believe any suspension would make me feel better. Unleess such user is banned. Will that happen? – HipsterMathematician Apr 28 '13 at 22:06
• @AsafKaragila, the offensive person is an intermittent user of chat, as i suppose i am. Enough happens in other languages that I cannot actually tell when such insults occur. Mariano probably knows something about this already, or can be persuaded to pay attention. – Will Jagy Apr 28 '13 at 22:08
• You can submit a request to the moderators, or send an email to the StackOverflow team by using the "contact us" button at the bottom of this very page. Include links to the chat log (I suppose they might be able to read deleted messages as well), and I am sure they will help you. – Asaf Karagila Apr 28 '13 at 22:09
• @AsafKaragila Thanks a lot for your help! I will do it! – HipsterMathematician Apr 28 '13 at 22:10
• Please let me know how it turned out (either by commenting here, or elsewhere on my posts)! – Asaf Karagila Apr 28 '13 at 22:11
• @Asaf don't worry, I will. – HipsterMathematician Apr 28 '13 at 22:12
• This is true in most chats, unfortunately. I don't think StackExchange is the only place this happens in. – Simply Beautiful Art Dec 6 '17 at 0:30

I could think of several reasons for this:

1. World wide women are somewhat underpresented in math. A lot of improvement has taken place, and the exact percentages vary VERY MUCH from one culture to another, but still...
2. To actively participate in sites like this correlates with a desire to show off (looks left, looks right, cautiously raises hand). This is a predominantly male thing.
3. The internet is not always a nice place for women. This very topic came up on another (a North American one in case it matters) forum recently. The women there told in unmistakable terms that they have learned not to disclose their true identity, e-mail address, true address et cetera in public fora. The stalkers prey at sites like that. Some reported rape threats from gamer sites and such. So I cannot really blame them.

So I don't think there is any cause for concern. There may be more women here than what can be read from public profiles, usernames and such, but they prefer anonymity for reasons of their personal safety or whatever. This site may not have creepy nerdy dudes looking for hot math chicks, but let's leave the decision to disclose one's identity to each and every member. They have their reasons.

• It was Sophie Germane who first called herself Monsieur LeBlanc when writing to Lagrange. – user2055 Apr 27 '13 at 2:41
• @JasonPolak I think you mean Sophie Germain. – Julien Apr 28 '13 at 0:19
• @JasonPolak Sure, to have a chance that he actually read her work. – Did Apr 28 '13 at 13:42
• Your ostensibly predominantly male desire to show off feeds my gender-neutral desire to learn more about math in a flexible environment! :) – bright-star May 6 '13 at 6:36
• Also her correspondence with Gauss initially used the nom de plume M. LeBlanc. – hardmath May 7 '13 at 16:32

I am a woman and I downvote. (Bumper sticker, anyone?)

My name, profile, and icon reveal my identity clearly. I am proud to be a smart, educated woman, (or a woman who is educated and smart) and have never felt the need to hide my gender. The fact that there are boys of any age who harass women for educating themselves in mathematics just makes me happier to be a woman.

If you want more women to use this forum, then get more girls and women to study mathematics. If you are a teacher, this is your job, and as a collective whole, you are still not doing it well enough. I am interested in math for one reason: I had a continuous string of excellent teachers.

• I like your style. Very refreshing answer. – zoidberg Dec 24 '18 at 6:53

I just noticed something which distresses me, regarding participation by women on Math StackExchange, and perception of us and our contributions here. Please peruse the text of the question. It inquires specifically about Math StackExchange, also known as math.SE. I will highlight the portion that makes that obvious:

## "Women on math.SE... our site"

In response to the question, answers were provided by three female users. They were courteous, candid and relevant. Yet this answer which consisted of three brief bullets points, one of which was "men like to show off, women don't" received more up votes than two of the three womens' answers.

Women DO like to show off! Does the respondent and 20 others believe that female mathematics enthusiasts, academicians, researchers and credentialed working professionals in the field are shy and timid (actively avoiding encomium from peers, and all the associated benefits), whereas MALE mathematicians are bold, boisterous, competitive, proud, thus enjoy public display of prowess and plumage?

Although I may seem irate with the person who answered, I am not. It is the validity accorded to his answer by so many others that I find so sad.

I haven't even addressed my primary concern. Look whose answer received the most up votes, and was accepted as the best by the original poster? The answer was written by a man but more pertinent is the fact that that answer is NOT correct! This is why it is a poor answer and should not have been up voted, and selected (unless women are not especially credible or welcomed on Math SE):

1. The answer demonstrated minimal effort, consisting of two (not descriptive) links to blog posts, without any accompanying prose content;
2. The central topic of both posts was a different website! Math StackExchange was not mentioned once, in either post, nor in the comments that followed. There is a significant difference between Math SE and Math Overflow.
3. Both posts were time stamped two or more years ago.
4. The female mathematician who wrote both posts does not participate on Math SE, nor Math Overflow. Yet the question was:

Why do women participate LESS on our site, using their real names?

Good answers should be written by, or about, Math SE users. For this particular question, female Math SE user answers would be more relevant. There were three answers written by female Math SE users, about the Math SE website.

There were also many answers written by male Math SE users, about female Math SE users of the Math SE website. Most were thoughtful, detailed and relevant. They have equal or greater merit than the accepted, most up voted answer, I believe.

I am being excessively precise in order to make a point. In fact, the two posts in the most up voted, selected answer were meaningful and informative. I am grateful to the individual who posted that answer for sharing them with us. I remain distressed that Math SE users are not more objective in their assessments, including assessment of each other (and self-worth, implicitly). "Hero worship" is not conducive to increased knowledge and understanding. That isn't a criticism of QiaoChu Yuan. He didn't up vote himself 31 times and select his answer as best. Others did.

• The blogger's stated reason for not using Mathoverflow was that, as a mathematician, she considers it to be additional work. She had other observations about problems on the internet, life and the mathematics profession, but did not imply that these problems are present more on mathematics web sites than on other web sites. I regard non-anonymous blogging by professors as (in most cases) a form of boasting, so there is one possible example of your point. – zyx May 8 '13 at 22:49
• When QY posted his answer, the question posted in the title was different and less specific: "Why cannot I see enough women here?". – 75064 May 9 '13 at 0:53
• @user75064 I laughed at that original title! It seemed like a request for service, or something ;o) Despite that, my critique of QY's answer remains valid. The content of the original question read as follows "Women seem to be relatively invisible here on math.SE. Is there any particular reason behind less participation of women on our site using their real names?" It is math.SE, and our site, not Math Overflow, which is a different, not-SE website (one with highly sophisticated users e.g. full tenured professors of mathematics). – Ellie Kesselman May 9 '13 at 1:55
• More than the two line answer, such as it is, what I found more worrisome was the dismissive comment, "This is a generic feature of many parts of the internet", etc. – Andrés E. Caicedo May 9 '13 at 4:26
• About the relative upvote counts. You do observe that this has evened out. And I'm happy to see that. At the time my "off the cuff" answer was raking in upvotes there were not too many alternative answers. Qiaochu's answer was better, because it gave us the impressions of a highly regarded female mathematician as to why she is not interested. After all, the question really is about the female math enthusiasts' (perceived) relative absence from fora like this. So the persons best placed to answer the question will never see it. – Jyrki Lahtonen May 9 '13 at 7:06
• I deleted another comment, because a second reading of your post showed that it was off the mark. You undoubtedly checked that my answer was posted earlier than Qiaochu's so at that time the question was titled differently. My answer was basically an attempt to explain, why we see relatively few female usernames here. The last bullet was my main point, I added the other two because the answer felt short otherwise. I am very sorry, if the second bullet offended you somehow. I have met dozens of ambitious female mathematicians during my career. Conceding that. – Jyrki Lahtonen May 9 '13 at 7:49
• And you could also view my second bullet as follows. Female mathematicians focus on their work as opposed to wasting their time collecting a few ego points at upvote-based sites like this. I cannot link to a study of eventual correlation between gender and desire to show off, it is just my personal statistical observation, not a generalizable fact. In other words you leaving out the key word predominantly alters the meaning of that sentence. – Jyrki Lahtonen May 9 '13 at 7:50
• @JyrkiLahtonen You are alert and courteous. Thank you. I did indeed check the time stamps. I didn't view your intermediate comment, as I was busy arguing some point over on Skeptics SE, so there is no need to apologize. I remain amused at the idea of bold, alpha-male mathematicians with fans and follower retinues. There is nothing to prevent that, but it isn't part of our current reality. I think I'll just delete my excessively melodramatic comment while I'm here. You set a good example! – Ellie Kesselman May 9 '13 at 22:50
• @EllieKesselman In case you're still "around" in these parts, I so appreciate your observations posted here, and welcome them, and I'm very glad this question and all answers are linked to a "gender-disparity" question here, now, in 2016. I would love to "talk" (email/chat) some time with you. I am a female user at math.se,, and I've acknowledged the same. But I am still, so often, referred to as "him" or "his answer." – amWhy Aug 31 '16 at 20:37
• @amWhy I am going to delete my prior comment, now that you have had a chance to read it. I would be happy to talk (email/chat) with you whenever you would like. – Ellie Kesselman Sep 6 '16 at 3:33
• @EllieKesselman Sure. Thank you so much for your reply. I hope to be in touch soon! – amWhy Sep 6 '16 at 10:37

I am female! I am Ellie. I like babirussa very much. That is the image I use for my avatar here, and elsewhere on line. Thus I am Feral Oink. I thought that "Feral Oink" was obviously female, as pigs are thought of in popular culture as pink. Apparently this is not true. For example, on English Language & Usage SE, many think I am an adolescent boy. I find it amusing to be praised for being a "sharp young fellow". (I was once referred to as a "nosy, pseudonymous porcine" on another SE site, which I didn't care for, but that isn't gender-specific.)

When I was in college, my mathematics classes, particularly the more advanced classes, were predominantly female. I was graduated from Swarthmore College. In contrast, all classes based on mathematics applications, whether physics or electrical engineering, had more men than women. This became further pronouced in engineering graduate school Oddly, male:female ratios are becoming less balanced (more men, fewer women) rather than more balanced recently. Well, that's true in the U.S.A., possibly not elsewhere.

While on SE sites, I like the feeling of generic participation that accompanies a pseudonym. Unfortunately, I suspect it also diminishes my credibility. I am not especially active on this SE, compared to others. I don't know of any other women who are active on Math SE. I think a few people may be female, but it can be difficult to tell, due to language differences. Thus, there may be more females here than you, or I, realize! As a native English language speaker, with some French and rusty Mandarin Chinese, it isn't easy for me discern whether names are male or female.

Finally, as someone else observed, there should be more participation by women in these sorts of venues. For example, there is a woman that I know who is a full professor of operations research, with a background in mathematics. I know another who has nearly completed a PhD in computational biology, though her strengths are in mathematics and numerical methods. They write math blogs etc. Yet neither has responded to my suggestions to give Math SE, or Cross-Validated or other SE's a try. I don't know why. I think they'd like it, if they tried it.

• The AMS keeps track of such things in mathematics, and does comparisons with other fields when available. Probably because the target in mathematics is typically university professor, there are gradually more women, i.e. government and other programs have had some effect. For a little while, there were increasing numbers of women in computer science and other types of engineering, but that has reversed, I suspect because the typical target is industry, which is much less influenced by governmental wishes; companies remain boys' clubs, and young boys at that. – Will Jagy Apr 28 '13 at 21:25
• You raise a good point that some of the male names may be real life women (maybe André Nicolas is in fact Nicolé Andrews?) and this gives us hope, so to speak. Then again, that's exactly the issue: Even those women actively and successfully participating here seem to feel the urge to hide their gender. While I don't care what funny pseudonyms people create, I feel sorry if specifically women suffer sexism so awfully when making their gender public. – Hagen von Eitzen May 8 '13 at 19:59
• @WillJagy I am familiar with the demographic data tracked by the AMS, both historical and in cross comparison with other fields. Trends are similar for statistics professional societies. Your last sentence, about companies remaining boys' clubs, and young boys at that, is very well-phrased, and very accurate, in my opinion. – Ellie Kesselman May 8 '13 at 22:41

There are two possible reasons: Either women are afraid to use their real names when posting, or there may be not as many women who are interested in math. My Calculus I class has about a 3:1 ratio of men to women, even though the overall gender ratio at the university is 2:3 (men to women).